The Big Picture on Batteries - with Roger Miksad from Battery Council International

Sponsored by KPMG

With Climate Week in full swing, tons of speeches, meetings and presentations are taking place in New York, with an eye toward how the energy transition will continue to evolve. One key technology that will continue to play a huge role in that evolution is batteries. Roger Miksad, the president and executive director of Battery Council International, stops by the show to explain how batteries of various chemistries are advancing to power things like data centers, EVs and microgrids. Roger also touches on a few policies that the battery sector is watching closely, like the USA Batteries Act. And with more and more batteries coming to the market, Roger outlines the hard work BCI and its members have put in over the years to advance recycling and develop a circular economy for raw materials and components.

More resources from KPMG
KPMG generative AI survey report: Energy, natural resources and chemicals
KPMG LLP AI & Digital Innovation Quarter Pulse Survey - Q2 2024

Key highlights
The importance of Climate Week - (2:57)
What Roger hopes to see from this year's Climate Week - (3:59)
The expanding role of batteries in the energy landscape - (4:30)
Specific areas batteries are powering the energy transition - (6:04)
The impact the Inflation Reduction Act is having on battery manufacturing - (7:53)
Other policies that are crucial for the battery industry - (10:31)
The role batteries play in powering data centers - (14:41)
Advancements in battery recycling and the circular economy - (16:42)
Roger's bold predictions - (19:58)

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Transcript

(Note - This transcript was created using artificial intelligence. It has not been edited verbatim.)

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This episode of the Renewable Energy SmartPod is brought to you by KPMG. 

The intersection of generative AI and energy consumption presents both challenges and opportunities. By leveraging innovative technologies and fostering collaboration between sectors, we can address the growing energy demand while advancing towards a sustainable future. Visit kpmg.com/us to explore how KPMG can help your organization navigate the future of energy, or just click on the link in today's show notes to learn more 

Sean McMahon

What's up everyone and welcome to the Renewable Energy SmartPod. I'm your host, Sean McMahon and if you've been paying any attention to the news this week, you know that climate week is here. Tons of speeches, meetings and presentations are taking place in New York City with an eye toward how the energy transition will continue to evolve, to discuss how one key component of that transition will also evolve. I'm going to be joined in a few minutes by Roger Miksad, the President and Executive Director of Battery Council International, batteries are already playing a big role when it comes to renewables. Think about it. It's awfully rare these days that you hear about any new renewable energy project that doesn't have a battery component to it. So Roger's here to paint the big picture for us and explain how batteries of various chemistries are advancing to power things like EVs and microgrids and of course, with all the buzz about AI data centers thirsting for more energy, Roger is going to detail how batteries will help power and manage that boom in demand 

Coming up next week, we're finally going to have our first episode of this podcast that focuses on geothermal energy. I can't believe we've been doing this show for more than three years, and we haven't dug deep yet on geothermal, but we're going to fix that as I'll be welcoming Jason Peart from Sage Geosystems to the show. Sage has been in the news lately on account of the geothermal power purchase agreement they recently reached with Meta, so we'll hear all about that from Jason. 

You can also look forward to hearing even more about data centers, because I'm going to sit down with Wade Gungoll, the CEO of Industrial Sun, and Christine Larson, the head of strategy and operations at Modern Energy, to chat about how renewables are being used to power heavy Industries and, yes, data centers. 

So lots of insights are coming your way in the next few weeks, but right now, let's get things started with Roger Miksad from Battery Council International. Roger, how you doing today?

Roger Miksad  02:53

I'm great. Sean, thanks for having me on. It's always a pleasure to talk.

Sean McMahon  02:57

You know, I'm excited to have you on the show. Climate week is well underway, so there's tons of renewable energy news coming out of the Big Apple. So I want to jump right into it and ask someone in your position, what's your take on big gatherings like climate week.

Roger Miksad  03:09

I gotta say climate week is a crucial platform for fostering collaboration and driving innovation across multiple industries in pursuit of a common goal for the wider renewable energy sector, it's an important opportunity for all of us to showcase things we're working on and our progress in aligning on our global goals for the battery industry. Specifically, these gatherings are vital for highlighting the critical role that batteries play in enabling clean energy transitions. Moreover, these events allow all of those sectors to engage with a broad cross section of stakeholders. For us, that means we can ensure that the battery industry's needs and capabilities are well understood both by other industries and policy stakeholders in one key gathering.

Sean McMahon  03:59

Is there anything in particular you're hoping might come out of this week or gatherings like this. 

Roger Miksad  04:05

I think it's an incredibly critical time right now, in particular, policymakers to step above the political fray and focus on the growth of clean energy into the future, regardless of politics and orientation. It's a trend that has to continue. And for us at BCI, we think batteries play a role in this, no matter how those policies roll out.

Sean McMahon  04:29

Well, you just said, I'm also seeing, you know, batteries are playing an expanded role in the energy transition, and so what are some of the steps that you and your members at BCI might be taking to help support that transition? Obviously, it's already growing kind of on its own. Growing kind of on its own, but behind the scenes, I'm sure there's a lot of things going on. So can you walk us through some of that?

Roger Miksad  04:47

Yeah, you bet you're absolutely right. The demand for batteries across all applications is skyrocketing and has been skyrocketing for the last couple of years in particular, and at. BCI as a trade association, we and our members are working on multiple fronts to ensure the industry can meet the growing demand. But first, I want to emphasize that the US knows how to make batteries. The US LED battery industry has had a strong manufacturing presence, meeting essentially all of the North American demand for car, forklift and other batteries with domestic production for more than 100 years. As demand grows for other technologies, the incumbent industry is ready to build on that success. We've got boots on the ground. We're ready to go. You know, we're seeing significant investments in domestic manufacturing capacity thanks to some of the incentives we've seen from the inflation Reduction Act and the bipartisan infrastructure law, those have been a game changer, obviously, with DOE now projecting more than 1.2 terawatts of manufacturing capacity by 2030 in North America. And that's on top of the existing incumbent lead battery production capacity that is still going full steam ahead. 

Sean McMahon  06:04

So what about some of the specific areas or solutions? You know, I know BCI is involved in areas like EVs and microgrids. Walk us through some of those detailed areas

Roger Miksad  06:14

At BCI, our members come from a proud tradition of making lead batteries, which we just talked about, but almost all of them have made significant investments in other technologies, be it lithium or sodium or flow. Batteries are an energy storage box to the customer, and it's the battery manufacturers obligation to figure out the right technology for the right application. So for example, for lead batteries, we see there's a great opportunity and a strong future to support the continued internal combustion market for as long as that is around. But in electric vehicles, if the country does move fully to electric vehicles, every electric vehicle needs a auxiliary battery in it to run power systems, safety systems and other auxiliary technologies. Lead batteries are great application of that, and our members that have huge lead battery production capacity are already shifting to meet that demand. But other battery technologies, be it sodium or flow and even lithium have a place to play in other markets that are currently underserved, in particular the stationary storage markets, whether it's in front of the meter or behind the meter at a facility. For example, flow batteries are a great innovation that's just coming to the fore that can deliver long term storage at a very rational cost in a compact package. There's a lot of work that has to be done to get those to mass market, but our members are working on it, and I think they've got a great chance of success. 

Sean McMahon  07:53

All right, now you mentioned the inflation Reduction Act a couple minutes ago, and specifically domestic manufacturing. What are you seeing when it comes to companies either onshoring manufacturing and production that was previously abroad, or choosing the US to expand when it comes time to grow their operations. Are you kind of seeing that, or any examples you want to cite?

Roger Miksad  08:12

Yeah. I mean, I think you can only look at the announcement just last Friday from the Department of Energy announcing another $3 billion in government incentives under the bipartisan infrastructure law for battery manufacturing and recycling, those investments are paired with, I believe, if I recall from the press release, more than $16 billion of private commitments matching those government funds, and those numbers will just continue to grow up. Those commitments and those incentives from the government are working. I also want to call attention to the manufacturing production tax credit, or the 45x tax credit for those of us that have legal backgrounds, which has been a particularly powerful incentive. And the reason is, is that it became available immediately, so you don't have to wait for the facility to be built to enjoy the benefits. If you are already building high capacity batteries in the US, and there's a lot of companies that are it provides a direct cash infusion back into that business, to allow those businesses to invest in additional future expansion and production capacity. It is a game changing force multiplier for the existing manufacturers here in the US, and it's it's been fantastic.

Sean McMahon  09:37

We'll be right back. 

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Just a quick reminder that today's episode was brought to you by KPMG. 

The intersection of generative AI and energy consumption presents both challenges and opportunities. By leveraging innovative technologies and fostering collaboration between sectors, we can address the growing energy demand while advancing towards a sustainable future, Visit kpmg.com/us to explore how KPMG can help your organization navigate the future of energy, or just click on the link in today's show notes to learn more.

Sean McMahon

And now back to my conversation with Roger Miksad from Battery Council International. Are there any other policies? I know you mentioned with climbing week. You're you're kind of hoping that politics get set aside this week, but I think we all hope for that sometimes. But specifically, are there any other policies that you're keeping your eye on, either other nooks and crannies within the IRA, or even stuff outside the IRA that you know is kind of working its way around Capitol Hill and you're really kind of focusing on,

Roger Miksad  10:52

Yeah, I think there's really two parts to your question. The first part, which is, what we've been focused on for the last couple of years is really keeping an eye on the way that the government, and in particular the Department of Energy, is continuing to implement the bipartisan infrastructure Act, as we've just been talking and the IRA, it's incredibly important for the Department of Energy to have industry and other stakeholders engaged throughout the process to ensure that The choices they're making and what to fund are based on sound science, good domestic security considerations and sustainable, recyclable solution. Doe knows it has to be careful to not pick winners and losers, but that implementation is ongoing and really has to be done. Right? We're also watching the newer developments in trade policy that are affecting battery supply chains. You've seen recent announcements about tariff increases on imported batteries and components for EVs, as well as there's been some noise recently about other EV components coming from certain countries. All of those policies as they get implemented, have an impact on battery supply chains and the way that car manufacturers in particular, source and secure their supply chains. And finally, in addition to that, BCI is a vocal supporter of the USA batteries act from representative muser of Pennsylvania, his bill would reverse punitive US taxes on essential battery materials that apply only to US manufacturers of lead batteries, putting them at an immediate cost disadvantage to foreign imports. These taxes were implemented, actually as part of recent legislation, but was somewhat inadvertent as a policy measure, given the way that it was implemented, and we think they should be rescinded immediately.

Sean McMahon  12:46

Well, I gotta tell you, I wasn't aware of that particular policy and the additional costs that's placed on the industry. So can you tell me a little bit more about that? 

Roger Miksad  12:55

As part of the bipartisan infrastructure law Congress to attempt to pay for some of the provisions they were adopting as incentives reinstated what were called the Superfund chemical taxes, which really related back to the original Superfund law of the 1970s it's a list of 2030, chemicals that are subject to excise taxes On the use of those chemicals at the time in the 1970s to pay for environmental cleanups that were related to those chemicals. When Congress negotiated the Bil they just flipped all of those defunct taxes back on and I think inadvertently, some of those taxes included taxes on lead oxide, antimony and sulfuric acid. Antimony is a critical material used in both lead batteries as well as other batteries, and is absolutely essential to the critical mineral list. Lead oxide is a huge component of lead batteries, and sulfuric acid is a huge component of lead acid batteries. So what these taxes do is that for every lead battery manufactured in the USA, there's a new additional tax being paid on that lead battery that isn't paid by any importer of a form made battery. Our understanding is that the intention wasn't to penalize the battery industry, and that it slipped under the radar at the time and made its way through. But obviously, getting any tax changed is an uphill process, and we've been really thankful for representative and user support in trying to undo this burden on battery manufacturing. 

Sean McMahon  14:39

Thanks for that additional background. Like I said, I said, I wasn't very familiar with that, Switching now to just kind of what's going on in the growth in the industry data centers. We're hearing all about how artificial intelligence is just driving almost an insatiable demand for data centers, where does BCI and where your members play a role in kind of satisfying that demand?

Roger Miksad  14:58

So. So data centers and the growth in AI and the resulting growth further of data centers and interconnectivity are a significant opportunity for the battery industry. Writ large, one of the key performance criteria of any data center is uptime, uptime, uptime, and to get that uptime when you've got an electric grid that occasionally has issues. We're not talking big issues. Even a half second of power disruption from the grid can be a big problem for a data center. Uninterrupted Power Supplies, which are batteries, are critical to the operation of those facilities. Traditionally lead acid batteries have been the go to solution for every data center nationwide. Today, as data centers grow larger and more energy intensive, we're seeing increased interest in other battery chemistries like lithium and flow and other advanced battery technologies, which are now all competing for a share of that market. At BCI, we're working with our members to develop and promote battery solutions that meet the unique needs of data centers. This includes batteries with higher energy density, longer cycle life, improved thermal management, which are all super critical to these data center environments. And moreover, as data centers increasingly look to reduce their carbon footprint, we're exploring how battery energy storage can help them integrate more renewable energy and manage their power consumption more efficiently. Batteries do all of that hit that bottom critical line of uptime, but also enable the greater resilience through renewable energy, which does have fluctuation in its output. 

Sean McMahon  16:42

And now another topic I want to hit on that I think is going to only grow in importance as we see more and more batteries out there. And that topic is recycling. And I know BCI has been involved in that for years and years. So if we're going to have more batteries everywhere, where are things headed with recycling? And you know, either reusing these or just end of life for batteries,

Roger Miksad  17:02

I couldn't agree with you more. Sean, battery recycling is a hot topic, and for good reason, as you noted, as the number of batteries in circulation grows, developing efficient recycling processes is crucial for both environmental sustainability but also supply chain security. The lead battery industry, which most of our members have been involved in, has long been a model of circular economy success. Today, nearly 100% lead batteries at the end of life are recycled and new batteries contain, typically 80% or more recycled content. It's a fantastic system. It runs very smoothly, and we're hoping to replicate this success in other battery chemistries and to huge need. And it's important let's not be deceived that success in the lead battery industry took hard work. It took decades of investment, and it took a lot of support from government, regulators and legislators alike. It's a whole of supply chain effort to build a truly resilient recycling chain for any product, whether from manufacturer to distributor to customer and back up that food chain. It will take time. It will take hard work, but I know the industry can do it for all of the new technologies. Another trend we're watching is the rise in interest in design for recycling approaches. Battery manufacturers for new technologies are increasingly aware of the need to consider end of life recyclability in their initial design process, which can greatly facilitate future recycling efforts, whether it's in 510, or 15 years. Again, this is a lesson the lead battery industry learned the hard way over decades, and we just want to share that learning with others today. Lead battery manufacturers have been very careful about what materials go into new battery designs, because they know that those materials will come back to their recycling processes, and they know that those materials have to be compatible. That lesson can be learned by any industry, especially our compatriots and our own efforts in new technology. 

Sean McMahon  19:21

Is that kind of knowledge sharing an example of what kind of goes on during climate week and gatherings like this,

Roger Miksad  19:27

Absolutely and it's it's an example of what we broadcast and offer to all of our industry, both within the BCI membership, as our members look at new products and those that come calling, whether they're government stakeholders, podcasters or other industry members that aren't even members, BCI members and our industry have put decades of hard work into this, and we think it's critically important that others learn from that experience.

Sean McMahon  19:55

Well, that's wonderful to hear. One of the things I like to do on this show is. Is, I asked my guests for bold predictions, you know, and as we've discussed, it seems like the battery industry is really kind of in a sweet spot right now, getting ready to grow and boom and kind of just take over so many different segments of the energy puzzle. Do you have any bold predictions for what we'll be talking about on a podcast like this, with regard to batteries in, say, three or five years.

Roger Miksad  20:22

That's an interesting question. Sean, I hesitate to say that my ideas are bold, but I think the industry is evolving at such a rapid pace that making predictions is not only challenging, but kind of fun. So I'll share a few thoughts about what I think you and I will talk about when I come back on your podcast in five or 10 years. The biggest thing is we're going to see a continued advancement in battery chemistries. Right now, all the discussion is on lithium ion technologies, and for good reason, it's going to continue to dominate for the foreseeable future. But I think we're going to start to see commercial scale deployment of technologies like advanced lead, sodium flow, other technologies that can offer longer durations, higher energy densities, faster charging times and improved safety compared to current lithium technologies. The market is booming so fast that there's opportunities galore for everybody in the field. I also think in five years, we're going to be talking a lot more about longer duration energy storage. I think EVs. We know what the problems are. We know the challenges. We know how to meet them. We're not there yet, but we're hitting it and and really long term energy storage. Call it grid connected storage, or behind the meter, is going to be huge. In particular for renewable energy grids, it's the old adage, you know, you don't get solar and wind when the sun's behind the clouds and the wind's not blowing. Batteries are the solution to that. There are lots of different kinds of batteries, but batteries are a huge solution to that. And we're going to continue to see advancement in those new chemical storage methods that you and I haven't even heard of, or on the workbench in a lot of these facilities, and those could come roaring to the floor, and you brought it up before. I think the circular economy is going to continue to take an even bigger focus. It's an issue that is directly in the sweet spot of the confluence of both sustainability and clean energy. It's the right thing to do, as well as national security and the need to ensure that as a nation, we're able to make the products we need ourselves, and so that Confluence just means that both the discussion and the policies supporting those issues are going to keep going full steam ahead. 

Sean McMahon  22:51

Well, I hope that's true. We'll definitely kind of keep track of those predictions and we'll, I'm sure I'll connect with you before five years time, but for now, Roger, I really appreciate your time, and I think our audience will enjoy hearing your insights. 

Roger Miksad  23:04

All right, Thanks, Sean, it's been fun talking to you, and I look forward to talking again.

Sean McMahon  23:12

That's our show for today. But before we get out of here, I want to say one final thank you to the exclusive sponsor of today's episode, KPMG, thank you all for listening, and if you haven't already, please subscribe or follow this show on Apple, Spotify, Google or wherever you listen to your podcasts, and as always, please be sure to share it with your friends and colleagues. Have a great day.