The Road Ahead for Renewables

This episode is sponsored by EDF Renewables.

Leaders from across the renewable energy industry are gathered in Minneapolis, Minnesota, this week for the CLEANPOWER conference. This annual gathering, hosted by the American Clean Power Association, is always a great chance to check in on the key issues and trends that are driving the energy transition. Adam Bernardi, director of renewables sales and strategy at Burns & McDonnell, joins the show to talk about what he's hearing at CLEANPOWER and out in the marketplace. Key topics from our conversation include:

• The recent filing of Anti-Dumping/Countervailing Duty (AD/CVD) petitions on U.S. imports of crystalline silicon photovoltaic cells
• Concerns about breakers being in short supply
• Aspects of the  Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) that are and aren't working well
• Robot technology at solar sites
• Workforce and apprenticeship initiatives
• Domestic content
• Shared lessons learned from Burns & McDonnell's projects
• Pop culture references to "Robocop," the Kevin Kline movie "Dave," the World Cup, the Super Bowl, the Kansas City Chiefs and ... yes ... Taylor Swift.

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Transcript

(Note: This transcript was created using artificial intelligence. It has not been edited verbatim.)


Sean McMahon  00:00

This episode of the Renewable Energy SmartPod is brought to you by EDF Renewables. EDF Renewables is a market leading independent power producer and service provider with more than 35 years of expertise in developing wind, solar, storage and EV charging systems. EDF Renewables - energy innovation for the next generation. To learn more, visit EDF-RE.com. That website again is EDF-RE.com. Or just click on the link in today's show notes. 

What's up everyone and welcome to the Renewable Energy SmartPod. I'm your host Sean McMahon, and we've got a special episode in store for you today. This week, leaders from across the renewable energy industry are gathered in Minneapolis, Minnesota for the CLEANPOWER conference. This annual gathering is always a great chance to check in on the key issues and trends that are driving the energy transition. To bring you insights from the conference. My guest today is Adam Bernardi. Adam is the director of renewables sales and strategy at Burns and McDonnell. He's got his finger on the pulse of what everyone is talking about at clean power. And not only will Adam discuss what he's hearing from others, he's also going to share what he's seeing in the marketplace. For example, during our conversation, Adam flagged one item in particular from the renewable supply chain that he thinks might soon be in short supply. And I must admit, it's not something that have been on my radar screen. I also think you'll enjoy this episode, because it's not often that this show delves into pop culture. But I promise you, Adam and I go there. We referenced Robocop that Kevin Kline movie Dave, the most recent Super Bowl, which was won by Adam’s beloved chiefs. And if you're talking about that Super Bowl, you're talking about Travis Kelce, and Taylor Swift. So yeah, we ponder the collective energy of Swifties far and wide. So get ready for a fun and informative conversation. But before we get rolling, just a quick reminder, if you haven't already, sign up for our newsletter, head on over to SmartBrief.com and sign up for the Renewable Energy SmartBrief or just click on the link in today's show notes. 

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining me. My guest today is Adam Bernardi from Burns and McDonnell. Adam, how're you doing today?

Adam Bernardi  02:48

Fantastic. It's a It's another beautiful day here in the renewable market.

Sean McMahon  02:52

Yeah, and you know, speaking of that renewables market, obviously clean power is going on. And I really enjoy this conference because it's a good time, every spring to kind of touch base and just take take stock of what's going on in the industry. So, you know, person your position, you talk to a lot of folks across the whole renewable spectrum. So what are some of the hottest topics you're hearing from leaders out there?

Adam Bernardi  03:13

Yeah, I mean, obviously, I think with the most recent news of the filing of the petition regarding ADC VD or anti dumping circuit veiling duties on Southeast Asian modules, at least in the solar space is probably the hottest topic that folks are talking about. And I think it's really in relation to the potential slowdown that we may or may not see in Project volume for folks like ourselves. I generally say, you know, markets can deal with high prices, we can deal with inflationary trends. But what we really don't like dealing with is uncertainty. And if you've, you know, rewind, call it 18 months ago, when the first petition was filed, that's really what we were dealing with, while we waited on Department of Commerce to make their ruling, would there be additional tariffs? would there not be how much? I think that's really a lot of the chatter that folks are talking about, given that, you know, if your project doesn't have for solar series, seven modules or unmarked your sales module, you're probably in that now waiting game where we're gonna wait to see how Department of Commerce responds, 

Sean McMahon  04:20

Yeah, I remember, at last year's clean power in New Orleans, talked to numerous folks who like, you know, the precious gold in the Crescent City was panels matter who you could sign all the deals you want. But if you don't have the panels, you got nothing. Seems like we're you know, I would have liked to thought we'd advance but it seems like we're still in that same place where folks are really concerned about where they're going to get the panels and other things they need to to get these projects completed is is that what you're seeing and you know, how much longer I think we're gonna be in during this you know, beyond waiting for, you know, word from commerce.

Adam Bernardi  04:51

Yeah, I mean, I guess I would say you know, like all good answers to questions is kind of, you know, the, the outcome of the last one right I mean, we, you know, everybody hears about First Solar being being sold out through 27. So I think a lot of people who have for solar series seven, or even series six plus modules, right, feel good about their projects moving forward, right. I mean, I don't know what the next level up from gold is. But that's probably what that is in terms of project certainty. You know, I do like all good things think that this will pass, and we will get back to being able to execute projects, you know, outside of that. I mean, one one, I think trend that we're that we're looking at that I think brings a lot of promises. You know, while we have this petition, a lot of folks are talking about, you know, domestic manufacturing. So I think we will start to see more of the big players, right, as most of them were already in progress about factories in the US, it's just more of a capacity play, right, in terms of depending on who you talk to, we're a 40 to 50 gigawatt market. And unfortunately, right now, you know, again, depending on who you read, 80% of that comes from Southeast Asia. So it's just going to take time for a meaningful portion of that capacity to come onshore, right to alleviate some of the concerns that we're seeing. But maybe switching gears a little bit outside of modules, obviously, high voltage equipment, probably specifically Breakers is probably the next big trend that people are talking about, you know, this is kind of replaced. What was main power transformers, probably two years ago in terms of being the limiting factor that everybody was worried about? How are we going to overcome this?

Sean McMahon  06:26

So tell me a little bit more about that? Where are the concerns there? Is it is it supply? Is it the models aren't keeping up with, you know, the development of other aspects of projects? Or what, you

Adam Bernardi  06:34

know, it's purely a it's purely a supply constraint? Right. And that's, to me, I mean, you look at that. And that's how I think, you know, where a market is almost at capacity, right? Where, once we alleviate a constraint, it seems like six months later, you find the next one, right, in terms of being able to continue to get projects to go. So on the breaker front, I think, you know, there's a couple of things going on. You don't need them just for you know, at the project level for the collector substations, right, all of these utilities who are building out the interconnection facilities, whether it be a switch, switch yard, three breaker ring buzz, right, whatever that asset is, that is required to get projects connected to the grid, they also need high voltage breakers. And a lot of these regulated utilities have a fleet of them, we're talking hundreds of 1000s of breakers across the country. And a lot of them as you can appreciate, right have very specific preferences on the on the brand name for lack of a better word or an OEM that they like, because they want to maintain consistency across their maintenance program. So for example, if they're a Siemens company, that they have something against GE, it's more that all their maintenance plans are based on Siemens, obviously, this is an example. And for them, then to add to GE breakers, right just introduces the potential for maybe them to make a mistake or have to redo maintenance plans on infrastructure that is obviously critical to maintaining reliability of their fleet of interconnection facilities.

Sean McMahon  08:02

OK, well, I'm definitely gonna keep my eye on on breakers. You're the first person who's kind of surfaced that topic for me. So appreciate that. Any other hot topics out there?

Adam Bernardi  08:10

No, I mean, between those two, I mean, that's enough to get you through your lunch dinner, happy hour here at clean power. So if you feel like you're going in cold pick either of those two topics, and that will definitely get you through whatever social engagement you have here at the conference. 

Sean McMahon  08:26

I gotcha. And then I would add one more topic that obviously the IRA, so what do you see out there that's working really well, you know, what's kind of doing just Okay, and what maybe is not working so well?

Adam Bernardi  08:37

Yeah, sure. So I think, you know, it's, it's always an interesting topic, where, you know, when when renewables really kind of got started with the advent of the investment tax credit, when all you had to do was kind of start construction, we as the contractor community, were really kind of on the outside looking in. But to your point, it was 18 months ago that we really kind of got brought into the fold in terms of now being a part of that related to the wage and apprenticeship requirements. So in terms of things that I see going well, I'm encouraged by some of the news that I'm reading in terms of the first Ira projects filing for their tax credits, you know, the rule has an opportunity for owners to sell these tax credits, I think that we have seen one, if not, maybe two transactions happen there. So again, even though we're not privy to that are really a part of it. It brings me a lot of encouragement, right, that the market is finding a way to kind of continue to progress forward. Some of the challenges, I think, really kind of stemmed to the comment I made about us as a contractor community being brought into this, you know, there's still not, I think we would say a huge amount of definition related to some of the wage and apprenticeship requirements. Right. And that tends to be the majority of the discussions that that we have with owners is given some of the ambiguity that exists around what is the prevailing wage, how often does it change? How do we properly classify workers There's still some, I think, further guidance that we are all looking to both receive. And then also the feedback as we do more of these projects. I think maybe the other point I would mention in terms of isolating things that are going well, or things that encouraged me is we're hearing about owners hiring third party auditors. Some of these happen to be some of the big four accounting firms assist in the documentation aspect of wage and apprenticeship, I view that as positive because we have to produce the certified payroll reports. And I think it's helpful that a third party right is getting involved to help provide us in the owner guidance about how we are trending towards those goals, because it's easier to correct any missteps early in a project lifecycle than it is trying to wait till the very end and then review the mounds of documentation that we will produce

Sean McMahon  10:51

Any aspects of the IRA that are kind of stumbling out of the starting blocks?

Adam Bernardi  10:55

I don't know necessarily kind of stumbling, again, some of it is also just kind of getting started, right. I mean, we we're getting ready to kind of see some of the first domestic content projects, you know, we talked previously about modules being a big topic, right, at least on the solar side, domestic content, I think the industry would say hard to achieve without without modules. And so now that we're starting to see some of those first projects with domestic content modules, we're starting to see the ask of downstream equipment, ie tracker, maybe pile having to meet those requirements. So maybe not necessarily a stumble, but I would put that in the kind of wait and see, bucket is still fairly new. I still think the biggest stumble right is really just the industry coalescing around some better definition about how we all comply with the Ask around wage and apprenticeship. Okay,

Sean McMahon  11:48

I want to shift to technology for a little while here. What are you seeing in terms of new either r&d stuff that's still on the way or stuff that might already be being deployed? What are you seeing new stuff related to say solar or energy storage?

Adam Bernardi  12:02

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think, you know, we get this question a lot, as you can probably appreciate, and I think everybody's hoping that one day we're going to answer with the Jeff Bezos module installing robot is here and like we've eliminated, you know, people from executing our solar projects. You know, I don't know that we get there. I think that we have seen some new machinery, some robotics in terms of of module install, you know, we have looked at some of the Man suits that can do assisted lifts, especially as modules continue to get larger, you know, I think it was, last year, we saw these 670, almost up to 700 Watt modules that are, you know, upwards of 90 pounds, obviously, you start to get that big contractors, probably talking about, you know, adding additional folks to their crews. So if you think about that, relative to adding robotics or machineries, while it's a great idea, it's also hard for that to keep up with the pace at which some of the module technology on the solar side is evolving in meaning, by the time your robot gets figured out on a 550 watt module, right, we're already at 700 watts. So a lot of the technology advancements we're seeing we're thinking about, are really intended to shave seconds, minutes, you know, out of the field, not necessarily ours, right, because these projects are now being built in areas of the country like the Upper Midwest, that is somewhat new to solar, it presents challenging terrain, we're hearing about jobs in West Virginia, right? The terrain is getting harder to deal with. And so you know, these machines then now have to work in those areas. So you know, I don't know that we're going to eliminate people from the job. But we are seeing, you know, some things that we're thinking about in terms of making it easier and more efficient to get equipment to the field. On the solar side terrain following trackers is something that continues to gain steam, as I mentioned about project sites getting more hilly. In addition to that some owners are talking to us about wanting their projects even to be more environmentally friendly. Meaning, you know, let's use the the earth as it's been given to us. Let's try and minimize civil grading, which again, kind of points to the trend we're seeing on these terrain following trackers, we continue to get asked about them continue to get asked how we can incorporate those into the design and construction projects that we do.

Sean McMahon  14:16

So I gotta go back there for a second. Did you say that? Did you say their suits that can help? You know, workers lift heavier? Pants and modules?

Adam Bernardi  14:26

Yeah, you can. You can you can Google them. It almost looks like Robocop

Sean McMahon  14:31

I'm imagining, you know, I think it's aliens, the movie where they're using like the big old robots.

Adam Bernardi  14:36

You know that's actually I mean, it doesn't look too too unfamiliar from that. And again, you know, think about trying to put that on in the Texas summer. Right? So again, while maybe it helps take some pressure off of the craftworkers joints, shoulders, elbows as they lifted, they are also heavy. They can be very hot. And so I think you know the limited trials that we've done with them. Right, haven't yet yielded the results in terms of benefits that we would look for. Gosh,

Sean McMahon  15:05

I'm just envisioning that that Kevin Kline movie Dave, where he has that robot. He's like, I gotta fish this big. You're like, I got a panel this.

Adam Bernardi  15:14

We're probably I mean, you know, who knows, I haven't made my way to all of the module OEMs. But you know, there probably are modules out there right on the floor that are that are that big from that movie?

Sean McMahon  15:23

I gotcha. And then also another kind of follow up in terms of you're talking about terrain, and kind of the constrictions will say, on getting some of these facilities built, or you see anything on whether, I mean, in terms of extreme heat, I mean, terrain is one thing, but if you're in Phoenix, and it's August, like what point, you know, with some of these robots or things like that be able to kind of solve that knee, whereas, like, putting a human or a team of humans out there is obviously risky.

Adam Bernardi  15:51

You know, it's no doubt that, you know, solar probably makes the most sense and climates like that. You mentioned Phoenix, obviously the Texas summer, right. You know, at the end of the day, I think the we talk about the Jeff Bezos, robot installers, you know, you've seen machinery operate in very high temperatures as well, there's challenges that present itself with that in terms of how efficient they can truly be. You know, I still think, you know, from, again, the limited trials that we've done. We've seen right, we think about it more from from the safety aspect of it in terms of we try and get started very early. Right, so the sun has not yet risen, give the workers right, the best chance to stay out of the standard get as much work done as possible, as opposed to trying to implement these these large machines. You know, honestly on whether I think the largest things that we hear about is more in terms of potential risks associated with projects right. There was the the article earlier this year about the the hammer hail damage is one of the projects in Texas those tend to be a lot more of the weather questions that we get asked or get involved with. We'll be right back.

Sean McMahon  16:58

EDF Renewables delivers renewable energy solutions to help solve clean energy challenges and lead the transition to a sustainable energy future. Learn more at EDF-RE.com. EDF Renewables is energy innovation for the next generation. 

And now back to my conversation with Adam Bernardi from Burns and McDonnell. So we've talked a lot about workforce things, you know, apprenticeship programs, things like that. We've also talked a lot about robots and you know, Jeff Bezos, you know, taking over things with his you know, Robocop style robots. It seems like there's kind of a push pull there, right? Because a lot of folks when they hear robots, they think about robots taking jobs away. But one of the key initiatives of the IRA was to, you know, create jobs. So how do you and the team at burns, McDonnell, kind of navigate that, or were those two things going to meet in the middle?

Adam Bernardi  18:02

Yes, it's a it's a great question. Right. And it's one that we talk about often, I think the first thing I would say, right, is that we don't view that like robots are going to come and take all of these jobs. And we're going to be able to, you know, operate with very few people on our job site and primarily robots. Right. A lot of that is the technology, as we jokingly talked about the robots can't quite keep up with the pace at which module OEMs are innovating tracker OEMs are innovating. And because of that, right, we need smart people in the field who are able to make decisions. It's probably no secret, right? Some of the solar module OEMs have changed the way that their modules come in the field in terms of how they're packaged, right, we joke, it's either refrigerator style, or when it leans horizontally. And now the term has escaped me. But so if you just use that as an analogy of a vertical refrigerator, one sitting on its side, if you have programmed a robot or trained a robot to handle it one way, and then it comes to the site the other way, I mean, think about like, you know, how would we handle that? Right? It would typically take months to think about now that we have people on the jobsite, right. We gather, we talk about safety, we talk about efficiency, and it's probably a you know, a two hour discussion as opposed to a two month exercise to reprogram all these robots. So that's why I said, you know, we're kind of shaving minutes and seconds out of the field, not necessarily ours from these robots. You know, a lot of the things that I think we're thinking about is really enabling our people through data and project controls to make better decisions in the field. That's really where a lot of the technology innovation comes from. Because we've seen this in a multitude of industries and it's probably no secret that for a lot of the people who are in this market today. The job they have today is probably not the job they have five years ago, it will be different but there is still a job there for people. So I don't want folks to think about that, you know, the Jeff Bezos robot robot is gonna come take everybody's job. It's more than that. I think all of the people in this market will continue to evolve as the technology does.

Sean McMahon  20:13

And then now, I want to ask you about some of your own recent projects, you and the team at Burns and McDonell. So any things you've learned from that, whether it's in the Midwest or elsewhere, that obviously there's project specific challenges, but anything that you guys have confronted and overcome recently that might apply to any projects across the industry?

Adam Bernardi  20:30

Yeah. So I mean, as you mentioned, right, we just completed a 900 megawatt program in Wisconsin. We're active now, in Michigan, you know, a lot of that has to do with just our location. You know, we're based world headquarters here in Kansas City, Missouri. And our union shop as CO is based in Appleton, Wisconsin. So in terms of locality, right, it's called an easy location for us to get to, it's also an area that is that is booming in solar right now for a number of different reasons that we could probably do another podcast on, right if there was interest, but in terms of, of lessons learned, right, I think maybe some of the big takeaways for us, and maybe things that owners always ask us questions on the first, right, you think about Wisconsin, maybe B comes to mind as a native Texan is winter, right? Everybody thinks, can you really work in winter? And we would say, yes, you can work in winter, right? What we try and do is right, we'd like to get out of that, as we say out of the ground as early as possible, right. So when we're doing projects in the upper Midwest and colder climates, our goal is to be able to get at least a portion of the site, if not all of the site, kind of done with civil, right, because, again, depending on where we are, we can drive pile in in the winter, we can assemble trackers in the winter, it's not as efficient, right, just given the colder climates, but we do have the ability to do that. The other thing I would say is permitting, you know, the Midwest is also a very unique area. It's funny that the example that I always use is, is Michigan in Ohio, obviously the Ohio State Michigan rivalry not lost on me as I make this, as I make this analogy, but but that seems to be a great one as it relates to permitting and even some of the NIMBY are not in my backyard concerns that solar projects face, meaning, you know, Michigan has colored elevated some of the approvals about how projects get permitted, because they want a more statewide approach, right, they don't want some of the smaller townships and communities to oppose opposition not have projects get built, and want to have a more standardized approach for the state. Ohio, on the other hand, has taken the opposite approach, where it's much more localized. So and I think don't hold me on this, but I think the threshold is about 50 megawatts. So if your project is 50 megawatts or above, there is more stringent permitting requirements, more local involvement that's that's needed. And that was something that we learned in in Wisconsin, right? Is that engaging with these authorities having jurisdictions or hJS early, bringing them to your project site, getting them comfortable with what your plan is, from the civil aspect of how you're going to go through construction, what the timeline of it is, right, is hugely beneficial, because these are construction projects, nothing goes perfect, there are always issues. And having those folks, you know, kind of on your side, having seen the site previously, is a huge benefit, right? The last thing you want is to have any kind of need or inspection come up and they haven't been to the project site before, right? Getting them to know your project team. And having seen the site early was a really big kind of lesson learned to take away from us.

Sean McMahon  23:39

One of the things I wanted to ask you about is in terms of opportunities for growth. You know, we're talking about how things are booming in solar, so much so that, you know, there's some supply issues, because there's so much demand, but are there any just macro economic trends that you think are going to propel that growth? Either sustain it longer or increase it?

Adam Bernardi  23:57

I think it's a great question. I tend to more think of it in terms of lengthening the market as opposed to growing the market meaning like, I think we could continue at this clip for a longer duration. You know, I mentioned, we went from, you know, kind of a limiting factor being modules to G issues to breakers, right, I think because of that trend, right? If we solve the breaker problem, I guess that we're going to run into something else. Again, that tells me that we're probably at the market capacity for how much solar we do. You know, when Ira came out, most people thought that we would go from a 40 to 50 gigawatt market to like 60 gigs a year. I still just don't see that that happening. Right. What I do see is the ability to kind of hold at that point for a long duration, keep the people who are currently engaged in the market for a longer period of time. I don't know that I'll get to see, you know, the end of my career through solar, but there are a handful of folks on our team who who think Will and I think a lot of that has to do with In a couple of factors, growth in data centers, right? So if you think about a lot of the folks who are either building these investing in these have a need for data centers, these are the I always forget the acronym, the fang or the Facebook, Apple, Google, right? These are companies who also are at the forefront of environmental consciousness. Right. And so those folks, they want these data centers to have some form of green energy that powers them. Right. So again, you know, solar and energy storage is likely where that that comes from. I think, you know, as the market grows, maybe we make an argument for carbon capture combined cycles, but right now, the majority of the solution has been solar. Another one right is again, given that we're here in Kansas City, Missouri, home of the chiefs, Super Bowl winning chiefs, you may have seen there was an article that this Super Bowl was the first Super Bowl 100% powered by green energy. I think those trends continue. I was obviously kind of focused on the game and who won and didn't pay enough attention to really how much traction that got. But I think we will continue to see that right? I mean, if the Superbowl is going to take the time to maybe put that article out, right, the World Cup comes to the United States here in 2026. Do we see? Right and advent of World Cup cities wanting to show that they're powered by green city does MLB take that right, so there's another avenue of continued growth of of need for green power? And then the third one right is just you continue to hear about large corporations. I mentioned Facebook, Amazon, Google, that trend continues, of corporations wanting to be more intentional about their impact on the communities. And I think a lot of that comes from their need to want to, you know, claim that they are contributing to this green power movement. Right, that right now is arguably probably powered by solar. 

Sean McMahon  26:53

Yeah. Well, I don't know about that Super Bowl though. Adam. I'm not sure if it was powered by renewable energy, or the energy from millions of Taylor Swift Fans rooting for her boyfriend to win. Yeah, as a song, I'm a soccer guy. And as you know, the World Cup is a great point. I mean, that's a multi venue place, right? So it's no longer just one Stadium in Vegas, you got a power, you got a power? You know, I think it's a dozen sites throughout North America, Canada, Mexico, and the US. So be interested, see what what, you know, those host cities do on that front? Obviously, that's in the future. And I want to ask you another question about the future. So, you know, when we get together at next year's clean power in 2025, what are gonna be some of the hot topics? What do you see your crystal ball will be the things that people are talking about the most?

Adam Bernardi  27:34

I think domestic manufacturing will continue to be a huge topic, right? So a lot of companies have made announcements about factories either being built in the progress of being built, right, I think by 2025, we will have some here. So we will probably be talking about how's it going? How is the quality of their manufacturing the capacity of their manufacturing? You mentioned, we've mentioned the World Cup, we will be a year away from the World Cup, I imagine that there are there honestly will be some chatter, again, Kansas City or World Cup city, we have heard some, you know, local chatter about that. So that won't surprise me at all. I think labor will continue to be a continued discussion. You know, we talked a little bit about the IRA, the apprenticeship piece of that, right? I think we're reading between the lines, right, the whole purpose of that was to continue to bring skilled labor into these projects. And so I think we will still be talking about how is that going? What programs have we created? What career paths have we created, right, that can have long lasting careers in renewable energy, you know, joked about maybe me not being able to see the end of my career through solar would love to, and I think a lot of people have that way. So I think that will continue to be another another trend we talk about is the people trend of not just constructors, but also engineers, right about where are we on an interconnection perspective, in terms of the studies that need to get done, how are we stimulating and developing stem folks to continue to come into this market to continue to hold the clip at which we're operating today?

Sean McMahon  29:10

Well, I appreciate that forecast from you. I promise. I'll hold you to it next year. Hey, listen, it's been a great conversation. It's not often on the show, I get to talk about, you know, Robocop and Dave, and you know, the World Cup Super Bowl and Taylor Swift and your beloved chiefs. So I appreciate your time today. Thank you very much.

Adam Bernardi  29:29

That was my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Sean.

Sean McMahon  29:32

Well, that's our show for today. But before we get out of here, I want to say one final thank you to the exclusive sponsor of today's episode. EDF Renewables. If you liked this podcast, please share it with your friends and colleagues. And be sure to follow us on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also follow us on Twitter, where our handle is @renewablespod. And if you'd like a daily dose of renewable news delivered to your inbox, head to SmartBrief.com and sign up for the Renewable Energy SmartBrief. The Renewable Energy SmartPod is a production of SmartBrief a Future company