Renewable Energy SmartPod
Renewable Energy SmartPod
EDF Renewables President and CEO Tristan Grimbert
Tristan Grimbert, the President and CEO of EDF Renewables North America, joins us to talk about all the big proposals coming out of the Biden administration (4:07), distributed energy trends (9:02), the power outage in Texas (11:12) and some of the policy changes taking place in Mexico (18:29). We also discuss transmission challenges (14:51) and issues related to China that the US solar industry supply chain is facing (17:00). Of course, we also had a bit of fun. Tristan is a proud Frenchman, so he also gives us his take on the sometimes heated rivalry between French wine and California wine (28:05) and he even offers up a surprise tip on where you can buy quality French wine for a great price right here in the US.
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Sean McMahon
What’s up everyone and welcome to the Renewable Energy SmartPod. I’m your host, Sean McMahon … and today’s show features a conversation I had with Tristan Grimbert, the President and CEO of EDF Renewables North America. We talk about a lot of topics, including all the big proposals coming out of the Biden administration, the power outage in Texas … and some of the challenges the US solar industry supply chain is facing.
Of course, since this is the Renewable Energy SmartPod, we also had a bit of fun. Tristan is a proud Frenchman, so I couldn’t resist asking him a little bit about the life he now leads in San Diego … and that led to some laughs about the serious intra-family strife that goes on in Tristan’s household over what constitutes good Mexican food … Tristan also gives us his take on the sometimes heated rivalry between French wine and California wine and he even offers up a surprise tip on where you can buy quality French wine for a great price right here in the US.
But before we get to that conversation… The exclusive sponsor of the Renewable Energy SmartPod is a company you’re sure going to learn a lot more about today: EDF Renewables. EDF Renewables is a leading renewable energy developer in North America with 20 gigawatts of wind, solar, and storage projects of all sizes throughout the U.S., Canada, and Mexico.
EDF Renewables -- Energy Your Way
Alright, so let’s get started… Once again, my guest today is Tristan Grimbert, the President and CEO of EDF Renewables North America. Tristan, how are you doing today?
Tristan Grimbert
Very good. Thank you. What about you?
Sean McMahon
I'm doing great … doing great. I know we have a lot of ground to cover today because there has been a ton of big news lately related to the renewable energy industry. Buuuuut … before we get to that, I always like to ask guests a few non-business questions … just so I can get to know a little bit about them. And when I found out I’d be talking to you, two questions immediately came to mind. Now, for listeners who might not know, EDF Renewables is headquartered in San Diego. So, you are from France and you live in San Diego now. I am a San Diego native who enjoys time in France. So what I want to hear from you as an expert is: What is the San Diego of France? Are we talking Nice? Would it be Antibes?
Tristan Grimbert
Well, it is hard to compare, but that's a good question. I would say that something that San Diego is unique, compared to France, is certainly the space that we have with the canyons. And I have been living here for 16 years now and really love it. I think maybe the French Riviera is a little bit more - much better food, I would say, in general. But it's also a bit more crowded. So both have their own attractiveness.
One thing I would add is that as my wife grew up in Morocco, we compare very often San Diego to Casablanca. You have the desert and the ocean and the and the sun all the time and the same palm trees. So you can draw from a lot of similarities between the two cities.
Sean McMahon
And you mentioned the food may be better in the Riviera. And that leads to my next critical question about San Diego living. If you've lived there for 16 years, you've got to have a favorite Mexican food place. So what's your go to spot for you know, when you have a hankering for a burrito or some tacos?
Tristan Grimbert
So actually I do not. My kids blame me for that because they love burritos and they argue about the which one is the best burrito place. But I must say that my wife is an excellent cook and she cooks French cuisine and Moroccan cuisine and Asian cuisines. So we eat a lot at home here. And I mostly reserve my taste for Mexican food when I'm in Mexico City which has a very, very refined restaurant industry. They're so I love to eat Mexican food there.
Sean McMahon
I gotcha. All right. Well, thanks for indulging me with answering those questions. Let's go and kind of tackle some of the news and information coming out of the renewables sector right now. So let's start off by getting your reaction to some of the proposals coming out of the Biden White House. We've heard a lot of news about offshore wind, EV charging stations and things like that. What's your overall reaction to proposals coming from Biden and his administration?
Tristan Grimbert
Well, I would say it's enthusiasm. I really applaud the new administration for tackling climate change very seriously. I mean, they're really eager to make an impact, and maybe catch up the lost time over the last four years. So it's really impressive to see the new administration mobilizing around the climate change agenda. I participated this week with on a call with the BOEM and the White House and various secretaries to show the alignment of the administration around the offshore goals that they just announced. And that's just remarkable. I'm thrilled.
Sean McMahon
Yeah, speaking of the offshore goals, the 30 gigawatts by 2030. I know Secretary Granholm from the Energy Department has been talking a lot about building out the domestic supply chain here in the US. Do you think we'll be able to do that in time to reach that goal of 2030?
Tristan Grimbert
Yes, I think it's a very achievable goal. I mean, it's ambitious. If we collectively - the administration and the various private players - we put the right resources in place, I think it's a very achievable goal. Right now, the bottleneck is the permitting and processing all the studies that have to be done, but that's very feasible. So I’m optimistic and eager to participate with our joint venture Atlantic Shores.
Sean McMahon
Yeah. Looking at some of the proposals they have, it seems like a lot of them really kind of match up with some of the strengths you have at EDF Renewables. Walk me through kind of what your portfolio is right now, not in terms of projects, but in terms of technologies.
Tristan Grimbert
So, first of all, we cover the whole gamut. We don't manufacture equipment, but whether you talk about EV charging for, you know, a parking space or 40 EV chargers, a microgrid at a customer site, or you're talking about a very large offshore project like Atlantic Shores, we cover wind, solar, and batteries in all aspects of the market. We don't manufacture equipment. We are here to facilitate a transition to a renewable future, basically in all possible shape and form.
Sean McMahon
So I took a look at your website, and you got a great tool there that kind of maps out all your projects. And that website is EDF-RE.com. And this interactive tool allows users to check out where your projects are located, what kind of project it is, and even kind of takes them into to some of the, you know, the photos and data on the specific project. And one of the things I noticed that a lot of the stuff coming out the next couple of years on solar is paired with battery. So you know, given the growth of hybrid projects, are standalone solar and onshore wind kind of becoming a thing of the past?
Tristan Grimbert
It's clearly, you were talking about earlier about the size of the pie, or each slice of the pie. And that's evolving very quickly. If you look backwards, you know, maybe 80% of our past is wind and, and 80% of our future is solar and battery. So there is clearly a change in terms of market share of the various technology. But I do believe in a balanced energy mix. It's very important that there is diversity of resources. So I think there is still a lot of room for wind to continue to grow and complement solar. Right now, solar is kind of playing catch up. I think the two technologies will balance out eventually.
As far as battery storage, it's very important that it allows more integration of intermittent resources on the grid. So we see more and more of that. Right now they are a lot associated with existing solar project because they can benefit from the ITC if they are associated with a solar project. It's maybe about roughly 50% of the solar project have batteries. We also see customers are interested in joint wind and solar project that we bundle all together. But I don't think that standalone projects are a thing of the past. I just think there’s going to be diversity. And it's important for us to offer the whole gamut of solutions to be able to fit the customer need.
Sean McMahon
And then there's been a lot of headlines lately coming out about offshore wind, like I said, you know, the proposal from the Biden administration for 30 gigs by 2030. And I know you're heavily involved with Atlantic Shores. But I got a question for you about onshore wind. Are there any specific locations in North America where you see untapped potential for onshore wind?
Tristan Grimbert
So, um yes, and I don't think I'm going to talk about that. It's a very competitive market. But those locations are very rare and few and requires a lot of work. And one of the reasons is because I think onshore wind has grown a lot, and the easiest locations have been tapped, most of them, and now you need to go to the second tier, third tier, etc., whereas solar is more of the current wave. So it's easier to do solar right now to find specific location than on the wind side. Those wind sites exist. I think what's key is that we're going to need a strong transmission program. I hope through the infrastructure bill to be able to untap some large areas of wind that are not being tackled today. So talking about New Mexico, talking Wyoming and etc. And all those areas have a lot to offer from a wind resource point of view, but need to be untapped thanks to new transmission projects.
Sean McMahon
I'd like to kind of transition a little bit to distributed energy. What's it going to take to expand that and make that more commonplace?
Tristan Grimbert
So I think it's a mix of regulation. So local regulation needs to allow the local energy to be valued at the right value it delivers to the customer. Also, the desire of the customers for green energy and resiliency is also critical. So it's a very localized market and you have to explore pockets of markets - like San Diego is one that's great for us, like Ontario, or like New York, where the regulation is such and the appetite of the customer is such as those markets are taking off.
What I think is interesting with our approach is that whether you talk about rooftop solar, whether you talk about stationary battery, whether you talk about EV charging, very often we start with one need of the customer, and then we add more to the customer requirements. Eventually, more and more often now we end up building a real microgrid for them to optimize and green as much as possible their electricity consumption.
Sean McMahon
So you talk about addressing the needs of some of your customers. And obviously, part of that after a project is up and running is the service side and the asset optimization. So how important is that part of the business become for firms like EDF Renewables.
Tristan Grimbert
So that's actually our foundation. We were founded 35 years ago as an O&M company - operations and maintenance - so we that's what we did initially. And it has always remained core to us. Mostly, to, as I say to our team, ‘To make our assets sweat.’ It's very important that we put a lot of investment -hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars - into our equipment, and then we need to make sure that they're going to deliver on their promises. So understanding the technology, understanding what is needed for the asset is critical to us. We try to work very closely with the OEMs, the original equipment manufacturers, like Vestas, GE and Canadian Solar or else to understand their technology well, and partner with them so that they can bring us the pieces of technology that we need, the piece of knowledge that we need, so that we can really make the asset as productive as possible. Operating as you own it is really a critical thing for us. There is no one better than the owner to know how to make the assets produce the maximum value.
Sean McMahon
So now I want to pivot a little bit and get your reaction to what's gone on in Texas this year. When news of the outages first started hitting, what were your thoughts when everything kind of went sideways in Texas?
Tristan Grimbert
Well, I must admit that like everybody else, we've been caught by surprise by the extent of the crisis. And we did not anticipate the grid to basically collapse. We have in our models and in our various scenarios where price can reach the peak and there could be strain on congestion on the network, but we never really anticipated that 50% of the generation capacity would go offline for days at a time. And at a time where you had 30% increase in the demand, in the load by consumers. So yes, the extent of the crisis surprised us. And I think that they need to be some take the time to reflect, analyze what has happened, and put in place the right regulatory processes to be able to avoid that in the future.
Sean McMahon
When we come back, we’ll hear Tristan’s thoughts on some of the solutions that have been put forth in Texas to prevent another crisis and his thought on the challenges the US solar industry supply chain is facing … We’ll also have some fun quizzing Tristan on renewable project names. And you’ll definitely want to stick around to hear Tristan’s tip on where you can score some tasty French wine at a sweet price.
COMMERCIAL
Let’s get back to Texas. Do you have any thoughts on some of the proposed fixes? I know, just in the last couple of days, the Texas Legislature has put forth a few things that you know, specifically, fees and additional costs assessed on wind and solar and electric electricity production. Do you have any comment on that?
Tristan Grimbert
Yes, first of all, I think it's important to take the time to think it through and analyze the lessons learned. There is no rush to make a decision right away. Today I believe there is 300 bills that have been proposed. I have not read all of them.
I am a little bit concerned that this crisis could be an opportunity for people to try to favor a technology versus another. But honestly, this crisis is not a wind and solar issue. It's really an issue of the way the grid was built. And what was missing during the crisis is really the gas production. So it's, it doesn't make any sense to do any punitive action against wind and solar. I think that also, it's important to think that if regulating capacity just by imposing very high pricing and very high penalties if you don't produce, is not very productive. As we saw during the Texas crisis, if the price of power would have been $100,000 a megawatt hour, it would not have allowed anybody else to produce. Everybody wanted to produce. So I think that at some point, the level of incentive, when it becomes punitive, is counterproductive. So right now doing more of what was done before is not the right way to go. I think that it's important that there is a reflection on how do we reward capacity? How do we record no carbon energy, how do we reward energy itself, but it's a balance of different revenue mix that have to be reflected in the regulation?
Sean McMahon
So here's kind of a mythical question for you. If you could take a magic wand, and look at the situation in Texas, or even, you know, last year in California, and you had the power to fix one thing or one solution or one technology that you think would make the grid more resilient, prevent future outages, what would that be?
Tristan Grimbert
Transmission, I think transmission interconnection and transmission around the country - strengthening the grid is a key critical success factor for the grid itself. And the transition to a carbon free energy relies on developing much more significant transmission network.
Sean McMahon
So then, looking back to the policy of making what you just described happen, what can be done at the local, state or federal level to help smooth out some of the challenges renewable technologies are facing?
Tristan Grimbert
Clearly, transmission permitting is something that the federal administration has to - it's a nut that the federal administration has to crack, I think they're very aware of that. It's a nut that it's not been cracked for a very long time. I think it is possible. One easy way that will not be sufficient, but that will help a lot is using the existing corridors and doing double circuits, or looking at thermal management of the lines. There is a lot of things that can be done without a bigger footprint of the transmission lines. But at the end, it will require some - like the US have been able to build the interstate highway system - it's necessary that the transmission lines network is expanded significantly from what it is today.
Sean McMahon
Another policy question. So there's a proposal or at least a push to establish an energy storage tax credit? Do you think that's actually going to be reality? And if so, how important you think that'll be in spurring the growth of storage?
Tristan Grimbert
I think it's likely and I think it's desirable. It's desirable because more storage will allow the technology to become even cheaper in the long run and will allow the integration of more intermittent resources, it also allow to install storage and location that are not necessarily the best for solar. And it breaks a little bit that tie between solar and storage. So I think it gives more flexibility to deploy storage capacity in the right location on the grid. So I do think it's both likely and highly desirable.
Sean McMahon
Okay, and then pivoting to another kind of policy sticking point right now. So there's a lot of news in the headlines about the supply chain as it applies to solar, you know, tariffs on bifacial panels coming out of China. And there's also a controversy about the human rights angle of the supply chain. So how concerned are you about what I would call a two-pronged threat to the existing solar supply chain?
Tristan Grimbert
It is concerning, in particular, because the supply chain is so weak in the US. So I think it's important that, first of all, we of course, abhor forced labor. There is no nothing that is acceptable there, so we have to make everything we can to prevent buying any goods that has been manufactured with forced labor. Having said that, it's difficult to track and it's difficult to track all the way to the sub of your sub the sub of your sub, whether there is any force labor in what you buy. So we are very diligent in doing that, that analysis.
But also, it's very important that the US - beyond the forced labor issue - it's very important that the US develop a supply chain on the solar side. And I think again, the administration is very aware of that. It is going to take time. It requires likely some incentives or special financing in place for manufacturing to see the light of day again in the US at a large scale. So we would applaud that. We support that. It's more beneficial when it's more balanced, and right now the balance of trade on the solar side is not balanced enough in favor of the US.
Sean McMahon
And then now earlier when we talked about Mexican food, you kind of tipped your hand and said you prefer the food in Mexico City. So that kind of leads perfectly to my next question. There's been some policy changes going on south of the border with regard to prioritizing various sources of energy production. Do those concern you? I know your firm has a few projects down there.
Tristan Grimbert
Yes, it is very concerning we we've been in Mexico for over 20 years now. And we have four operating project there and a number of project under development. And it is true that the administration of Lopez Obrador has been adverse to private investment, in particular in renewable. We hope that corner can be turned. And we believe that there is a lot to do with CFE, with the commission federal electricidad, that to have some private-public partnerships.
The country has a lot of energy needs. The country has a lot of energy resources. Wind and solar resources are great in Mexico. It’s a country that's really destined to have a great renewable future. It will take both the private investment and the public support to be able to develop the renewable industry to the extent that it deserves. We just hope that the government is going to take a different stance as far as private investments.
Sean McMahon
I’d also like to pivot now to some other projects, specific to what EDF Renewables is working on -already existing or has in the pipeline. So, any update you can offer on Atlantic Shores?
Tristan Grimbert
Yes, we are waiting for the results of the last RFP - request for proposal - by the BPU. And we are very excited and think we have extremely high chance of winning an award. And then moving to construction phase for our first megawatts in the water in 2027. It's very high investment, a lot of technology. We're very happy with our partnership with Shell and look forward to being able to contribute to the offshore targets of New Jersey.
Sean McMahon
Switching over to the West Coast. You know, considering all the proposals out of the Biden administration, how soon do you think we'll see wind farms off the coast of California, Oregon or Washington?
Tristan Grimbert
That's one where I don't know. The sooner the better. It's a difficult development proposal to get a wind turbine in the water in California. But there is a big need too. California has a 100% target, as you know, and it will be difficult to fulfill that without offshore. So we are a big supporter. I am not sure how quickly the new administration will be able to tackle that. We see an acceleration on the East Coast. There is a desire to do more on the West Coast as well. I think it's possible. But honestly, I will reserve my bets on that one.
Sean McMahon
Now we're gonna have a little bit of fun. We want to bring you in on a quiz game that is, you know, sweeping the world of renewables. It's called renewable project or not a renewable project. And so what this is all about, and to be honest, we're stealing this from one of my favorite podcasts called, I like beer, the podcast, which is actually a handful of guys down right in your neck of the woods in San Diego, they have a podcast all about beer, and they go to all the breweries and things like that. And they have a bit in their show where, you know, we all know how some of the beers these days and microbrewers come up with great and funny, you know, funny names, or, you know, all kinds of satire and things like that. And so, one of their guys has, he throws up for names of beers. And, you know, the rest of the guys on the show have to guess which one he made up, you know which one's real, and which ones are completely make believe.
So we're gonna steal that here. And we're gonna do the same thing. But we're gonna do it with renewable projects, because as you might know, a lot of times renewable projects have these nice, you know, leafy and majestic imagery for the names. And sometimes it's, it's pretty fun to look at how that comes across. And, you know, now I'm not making fun of the people who name those things. It's obviously a pretty important marketing thing to, you know, conjure up this great image when you're trying to get a project developed. But I think we can kind of, you know, have a little fun with that today. So I'm gonna bring producer Tom back in. He has gone on to the great internet research fact finding mission, and he's looked up some renewable project names. And so he's going to give us four projects, three of which are real, and one of which is not real. Now, I have no idea what ones he's done. So he's quizzing both of us. I'm in the spotlight, just like you are interesting. So, Tom, take it away.
Producer Tom
Well, thank you, Sean. And yes, three of these are real projects. One is not a real project. I can affirm that what Sean said is true. He has no knowledge of what I've done here. So let's begin.
The first project name is Sidewinder Shine Solar Farm. The second project is Blue Sky Green Field Wind Farm. The third project is Leaning Juniper Wind and the last one Desert Sunlight Solar Farm. So one more time. Sidewinder Shine Solar Farm, Blue Sky Green Field Wind Farm, Leaning Juniper Wind Project and Desert Sunlight Solar Farm.
Sean McMahon
Okay, Tristan, do you want to go first and take a guess at which one is not a real renewable project?
Tristan Grimbert
So I'm very bad with names and but I would say that the first one is the one that's a fake taking a leap of faith.
Producer Tom
Sean,
Sean McMahon
What was the name of the first one?
Producer Tom
Sidewinder Shine Solar Farm.
Sean McMahon
What was the Juniper one?
Producer Tom
Leaning Juniper Wind Project.
Sean McMahon
So, Tristan, what you don't know is the Tom knows me. And he knows that I like few things more on a hot day than a nice gin and tonic with some Juniper flavors. So I think he's toying with me here. I'm gonna say that that is not a real project, the Leaning Juniper.
Producer Tom
All right, well, let's start with the two that you didn't choose. Desert sunlight solar farm is in fact, a project. And blue sky green field wind farm is in fact a project. Now, Sean, you picked Leaning Juniper and yes, you might think I was playing with you. But I'm sorry. That is actually a real project. So you win today, Sidewinder shine solar farm is not a real project. Congratulations.
Tristan Grimbert
Thank you, Tom. I'm really proud.
Sean McMahon
Yeah, now so just to be honest, I kind of geek out sometimes on various renewable energy projects. And so there's a few that your company has done that caught my eye and what usually interests me sometimes it's not always the biggest, you know, the “bragawatt” one sometimes it's the it's the smaller projects that are just unique are located in unusual places. So what can you tell me about the storage project you guys collaborated on with the San Diego Zoo - right there in your backyard where you guys are headquartered.
Tristan Grimbert
It's a great project. Needless to say, I spent a lot of time there when my kids were younger. And basically it's a stationary battery that helps the zoo to minimize their demand charge. So it's pretty simple. A lot of the technology comes from the algorithm so we work with our sister company in Europe that has some algorithm developed by EDF research and development team. They are extremely good at piloting the battery itself so that we can avoid, anticipate and avoid those demand charges peaks and it's working really well. The payback is pretty quick and much quicker than on a very large project - about three times quicker. And, and it's a project that's been functioning very well since its inception.
Sean McMahon
You mentioned you love enjoying a nice wine while you're feasting on some Mexican food. And so that leads me to another one of the EDF Renewables projects that caught my eye. Domaine Carneros. What can you tell me about that project in Northern California?
Tristan Grimbert
So first and foremost, I would like to salute the quality of the produce. The sparkling wine made by the domain is excellent. It's actually my favorite California one. And we are big, sparkling wine amateur in my family. So that's the most important thing. Now the project itself is a microgrid where we combine carports, ground mounted solar and stationary battery to produce green energy for the domain and also allow the domain to island itself from the grid if there is a grid outage and that allows the domain to continue to produce even if there is no electricity coming from the grid. So we see a lot of demand for this type of product in California in particular with the wildfire preventive outages that cut some of the electricity supply to various businesses that are in the Sierras or in the valleys. And that's a growing market. And I think it's a great answer that can be provided to the customers in that part of the US.
Sean McMahon
So let me just follow up real quick there. So this concept of islanding for businesses, whether it's a winery or just another remote business that's kind of located on the outskirts of towns in California and areas that are kind of stricken by wildfires. Is that a trend that you're seeing? You know more customers come to EDF Renewables, asking for information on how to build that out?
Tristan Grimbert
Definitely, there is definitely a cost to it. That is kind of a fixed cost to put the electronics and the controls to be able to Island the system. But there is also a tremendous value to avoid, you know, being powerless during literally no pun intended during an outage. So yes, definitely. It's a trend that is growing.
Sean McMahon
Okay, now I just got to ask you the wine question. So you know, as a Frenchman living in California, where do your allegiances lie on which who makes better wine.
Tristan Grimbert
It's a matter of taste. And California wines are excellent. I would not rank one country over the other one. I would say two things. My favorite for me is still Châteauneuf-du-Pape, that is my favorite wine on earth. And I also think that the tip is that you get great French wine at great value at Costco. That will be my tip. I know it's not very fancy, but they have a great one selection usually. And and usually it's better value than the American wine. So same quality, I would say. But I think the American wine is a little bit overpriced.
Sean McMahon
Gotcha. That’s a great tip. Costco for my French wine. Okay, I gotta I gotta hit that up next time.
Well, this has been a fun conversation Tristan. I really appreciate your insight on both the renewable energy sector and of course, the tip on where to get great red wine at Costco. So thanks for your time today.
Tristan Grimbert
Thank you, Sean was my pleasure. I look forward to doing it again.